i am not within cat-v, i.e. “one of them” or a particular friend of anyone within it, but it was quite formative for me (on the technical side) from when i was about 14 years old, and i would like to provide the requisite context to view the whole ordeal charitably, and clear up some misconceptions
first of all, suckless are shitheels. fuck em six ways to sunday. they are cargo-cult idiots who do things like unironically create a linux distribution with static linking as a design goal and namesake (haha because doing that on a modern unix sure doesnt lead to complications haha what is openssl haha) [n.b. plan 9 doesn't have this problem because ssl is done at a level of abstraction living outside the program. plan 9 folks tend to take issue with static linking because it's unnecessary in their context, while the suckless people do it out of purity politics in the context of posix. this is a recurring pattern]
below are extensive receipts spanning the duration my current irc client has been running on its current box, just doing less on the log and punching in /suckless. not exhaustive, but nothing contrary omitted. this should give some idea of the prevailing attitude. i do not speak for any of the individuals featured in these logs.click here to go to the bottom
01:21 < hiro> nelnire: people started speaking french on suckless! 01:25 < nelnire> Why that ? 01:28 < hiro> nelnire: nationalism
23:52 < hiro> [dev] [ANN] samurai: ninja-compatible build tool 23:53 < hiro> suckless is creating more technical debt as usually 23:53 < mveety> thats what they do 23:54 < mveety> brb smoke/popcorn 23:59 < Ori_B> hiro: haha, I think I might be partly to blame for that one by rambling about imrpoving the myrddin build system. --- Day changed Wed Jul 26 2017 00:01 < hiro> thanks a lot then
10:40 < Aram> he's been condescending and insulting to everyone 10:40 < Aram> claims we're only a circlejerk and below intelligence 10:40 < Aram> constantly complaining about us, but refusing to depart peacefully, or to spend effort to actually understand what we do. 10:40 < Aram> he also implied that we are the same people as the suckless folk 10:40 < Aram> he's just a general jerk and asshole 10:41 < Aram> and he can't seem to reply to the right person. 10:41 < Aram> below average internet failure.
01:14 < hiro> wow, suckless people going crazy 01:14 < mveety> what weird shit are they doing now? 01:14 < hiro> garbeam replying to k0ga moving scc to 20h's bitreich: 01:15 < hiro> Btw. bare in mind, that putting scc behind gopher won't increase its 01:15 < hiro> visibility or traction by any means imho, rather the opposite. I 01:15 < hiro> understand the motivation by adopting gopher, but nevertheless I 01:15 < hiro> highly encourage you guys (incl. 20h) to also(!) provide your content 01:15 < hiro> via http(s). You are locking yourselve up in some parallel universe, 01:15 < hiro> if most people will end up using gopher web frontends to browse your 01:15 < hiro> content ;) 01:15 -!- Ori_B [~ori_b@mimir.eigenstate.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:15 < mveety> jesus christ they're moving to gopher? 01:15 < hiro> seems that 20h is all about that :D 01:16 < mveety> i used to see him as a friend 01:16 < hiro> mveety: how come? 01:16 < mveety> i guess this is what it feels like when someone you know gets schizophrenia
01:21 < k0ga> hiro: you are there for longer time than me, and I am pretty sure that you realized that in the last 2 years or so there was a big change in the suckless way of thinking 01:21 < hiro> k0ga: not really 01:22 < hiro> k0ga: it's been shit pretty much all around 01:22 < mveety> big change? 01:22 < mveety> the schizophrenia comment is apt 01:22 < hiro> k0ga: mainly there was no suckless way of thinking any more at all 01:22 < k0ga> apt? 01:22 < mveety> yeah 01:22 < hiro> k0ga: because garbeam and 20h were not as present on the ml 01:22 < hiro> k0ga: mostly it was unmoderated spam 01:22 < k0ga> yes 01:22 < mveety> suckless is looking more and more like a lunatic asylum 01:23 < k0ga> and more or less the same happened with stateless 01:23 < hiro> k0ga: but before there were garbeam's flighty opinions, which also never helped 01:23 < k0ga> he removed himself the rights in suckless 01:23 < hiro> mveety: #cat-v is that asylum. suckless is just the blackboard downstairs where asylum members can sell their old furniture 01:23 < mveety> hahahahaha 01:23 < k0ga> hahahahahahah
03:42 < oxnas> yeah, i would say i'm just a spectator, but i really just occasionally look at suckless.org and download 9base
04:42 < hiro> oh god, fucking suckless 04:42 < hiro> let me summarise what we will carry out during the upcoming hackathon 04:42 < hiro> besides a load of other stuff: 04:42 < hiro> - (mandatory) introduction of HTTPS besides http support 04:42 < hiro> - (mandatory) sorting the maintainership/ownership of suckless repos 04:42 < hiro> (incl. the right to commit/accept/deny patch contributions) 04:42 < hiro> - (mandatory) on release creation making sure that sha256 hashsums are 04:42 < hiro> present for tarball verification on dl.suckless.org 04:42 < hiro> - (optional) repo owners/maintainers should sign their future git tags 04:42 < hiro> for release creation by using their own private PGP key.
11:10 < hiro> trolled suckless from the beach today 11:10 < hiro> went swimming three times and stuff 11:11 < joe9> cinap_lenrek: how do the sizes reported by /dev/draw/new get set? 11:11 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: did you read my suckless shit, or did you mean the low hanging fruit turd temple rant? :) 11:12 < cinap_lenrek> hiro: the second :) 11:12 < cinap_lenrek> joe9: what do you mean with sizes? 11:12 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: ah, cause i used the word rant specifically on suckless :D 11:13 < hiro> i ranted there about the stupid inconsistent "security" they fail to provide with letsencrypt now 11:13 < hiro> like garbeam owns the domain, but he lets a third party (that i don't know) handle the letsencrypt bullshit for him
11:58 < doppler> 13:10:02 <hiro> trolled suckless from the beach today 11:58 < doppler> hiro: I am immensely jealous.
04:14 < hiro> ok, finally a good opportunity to leave suckless for good 04:15 < hiro> fuck these TLS snakeoil assholes 04:15 < hiro> they understand nothing of trust 04:15 < mveety> i would have pulled the ripcord on that years ago 04:15 < hiro> mveety: i was too lazy to find the unsubscribe url 04:15 < hiro> mveety: also i was 75% sure they'd just kick/ban/mute me 04:16 < hiro> i have to give them props, they didn't do that: but they also didn't prevent other more harmful people from creating shitty code on suckless 04:16 < hiro> and especially as badly as garbeam always managed the webshit, they at least were somewhat stable 04:16 < hiro> but now garbeam isn't even administering shit any more (he must not have any more time for this i guess) 04:17 < hiro> whatever flaws garbeam had he wasn't as stupid as these new people 04:18 < hiro> "Goodbye from dev@suckless.org" 04:18 < hiro> yay 04:18 < mveety> \o/ 04:18 < hiro> my days will be more productive now 04:19 < hiro> i could send cat pictures to 9front... 04:19 < hiro> hmm 04:19 < mveety> i stopped reading that shit years ago and it hasn't helped my productivity 04:19 < hiro> mveety: hehe 04:19 < hiro> mveety: adjust your definition of productivity 04:19 < hiro> mine is: not being on suckless equates 100% productivity
14:34 < khm> I originally did this for 2wm 14:35 < khm> then I went to look how anselm fixed it in dwm 14:35 < zcram> they seem to be very particular about honour and dignity in the mailing list. 14:35 < khm> and he did it by turning off deprecation warnings 14:35 < khm> (what the fuck, anselm) 14:35 < khm> so that's the RIGHT way to fix the deprecation warning, without introducing a dependency on XKB 14:35 < khm> not that suckless cares about introducing dependencies: let's add freetype to a program that emits a single line of text! 14:36 < zcram> hrm. 14:36 -!- eggstyrone [~textual@68.188.49.254] has joined #cat-v 14:37 < khm> suckless default CFLAGS are -Wall -pedantic -i-didnt-mean-it -Wmost -Wsome -Webkit 14:37 < zcram> I actually like the pixel fonts that come with Xfree... 14:37 < zcram> rofl.... 14:37 < khm> zcram: when I use dwm I use 6.0, but I mostly use 2wm 14:39 < khm> suckless' git webshit doesn't even list all their fucking repositories 14:39 < khm> oh, turns out it DOES list all their repositories and a bunch of shit is just gone forever 14:39 < khm> great 14:40 < zcram> tbh, with suckless' stuff we've reached a point (in the sculptor's view, when there's no more to take away from a finished masterpiece) where most of that stuff doesn't work 'out of the box' for any particular user and must always be customized, which was actually the point (and design goal) as to drive the complete noobs away 14:40 < khm> "doesn't work" is definitely a good descriptions of the two remaining suckless projects 14:40 < zcram> they reworked the repositories some weeks ago 14:40 < zcram> xd 14:41 < Ori_B> zcram: ...not sure if you're serious or not. 14:41 < khm> by "reworked the repositories" you mean "deleted a bunch of shit" right 14:42 < zcram> well, it's just the same as with soviet cars—coming out from the factory they still required a 'making them run-repair' at first, somewhat serious.. 14:42 < zcram> yeah 14:42 < khm> it's extremely suckless to delete working code so their webshit looks prettier, but keep the wmii mailing list around forever
09:55 < hiro> so, fuck suckless 09:56 < hiro> it's better like this 09:56 < hiro> better they die slowly. 09:56 < doppler> that shouldn't even do anything though right 09:56 < [equa]> the only advantage of using windows is that it doesn't have suckless
12:51 < khm> " A vi-like editor based on Plan 9's structural regular expressions 12:51 < khm> which one of you animals created this 12:51 < hiro> haha 12:51 < hiro> let me guess 12:51 < byouki-onna> It's an opinion about the nature of relationships and communication mediums. I don't share it. 12:51 < hiro> Ron? 12:52 < hiro> wait no, perhaps ron uses emacs...\ 12:52 < khm> oh it's a suckless guy 12:52 < khm> Loading a file from disk is as simple as mmap(2)-ing it into a buffer, 12:52 < hiro> oh VIS 12:52 < khm> ... 12:52 < hiro> yeah, could have told ya
11:02 < aiju> it's so easy to rationalise this shit when you don't give a fuck about code complexity, too 11:02 < khm> yeah 11:02 < khm> it's like the suckless guys 11:03 < khm> who pride themselves on concise code 11:03 < khm> #include allofwebkit.h 11:03 < khm> run() 11:03 < khm> LOOK HOW CONCISE 11:03 < aiju> hahahah
12:37 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: what would ted nelson think about suckless? 12:37 -!- vhaas [~Thunderbi@pool-74-105-227-52.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #cat-v 12:38 < cinap_lenrek> hiro: i don't know. 12:38 < hiro> i already can imagine he'd hate 9front cause he hates files :D 12:38 < cinap_lenrek> hiro: ... what is suckless? 12:38 < hiro> files are not flexible enough, haha :D 12:38 < khm> cinap_lenrek: suckless is a web browser manufacturing cooperative 12:39 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: suckless is multi-monitor window manager theming and kinda apple password prompt engineering 12:39 < hiro> they had the idea first, after microsoft had it first 12:39 < hiro> and then apple fixed it first. 12:40 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: but i'm just babbling 12:40 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: in reality i thought ted nelson kept on describing precisely the opposite of suckless 12:40 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: it's quite striking :D
01:44 < hiro> talking doesn't need to be stalking 01:44 < aap> hiro: have you actually met them though? 01:44 < pr> you cant spell stalking without talking 01:44 < aap> him* 01:45 < aiju> man 01:45 < aiju> why does matlab hate dmenu? 01:45 < hiro> 10:34 aiju someone here had their computer replaced by a mac 01:45 < aiju> how does that make any sense 01:45 < hiro> wherever i witnessed this it's been by their request 01:45 < hiro> normally cause they already switched to macbooks at home or so 01:45 < aiju> hiro: yeah i'm just joking :) 01:45 < aiju> hahahahahaha 01:45 < aiju> they got the IT guy 01:45 < hiro> no company will give you a macbook without you asking for it, too expensive :P 01:45 < aiju> maybe i was right 01:46 < aap> at some point *we* will be replaced by macs 01:47 < hiro> aap: i wouldn't know if i met him. but i've overheard nerds talk about computershit in a way i thought they should be jailed 01:47 < hiro> so that might have been him... no idea 01:47 < aap> hehe 01:47 < aiju> weird 01:47 < aiju> i made a 1 billion entry array now 01:47 < aap> i once overheard people on the s-bahn talking about a three dimensional state machine 01:47 < aap> wtf? 01:48 < aiju> i cut off the last entry and it fails with "out of memory" 01:48 < aiju> fucking matlab 01:48 < hiro> i think it's better i don't try to find him or i might run over and make him pay for his sins i have to suffer from at my work 01:48 < hiro> if it's easier to punch him in the face than to reboot the computer to make systemd work again... 01:48 < aap> that guy sure gets a lot of hate 01:48 < aiju> not enough. 01:48 < hiro> and i can already imagine if he dies some day an other asshole will make a systemd2 01:48 < hiro> and it will cargocult all the bad ideas 01:49 < hiro> and make sure they are implemented even worse 01:49 < aap> the amount of people who think he should be killed should worry him 01:50 -!- geospeck [~geospeck@2001:4640:662c:0:6864:f3eb:d03f:bab3] has joined #cat-v 01:52 -!- cinap_lenwerk [~cinap_len@89-186-156-12.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #cat-v 01:52 < aiju> now it's back to italian matlab support 01:52 < deuteron> stalking sounds like a suckless project intended as a less harmful alternative to talking. 01:52 < aiju> hahahahahahahahhahaa 01:52 < cinap_lenwerk> hahaha 01:53 < hiro> deuteron: :) 01:53 < hiro> we have to popularize that idea 01:53 < hiro> perhaps on hackernews 01:53 < deuteron> Everybody; to the mailing list! 01:53 < hiro> let's make a mock-off suckless 01:54 < hiro> it's better when they find out about it on hackernews 01:54 < hiro> they'll be more upset 01:54 < hiro> cause they know they shouldn't be finding out about their suckless news on hackernews 01:54 < hiro> it has to have a github! 01:54 < hiro> and coverage tests 01:55 -!- trqx [~trqx@gateway/tor-sasl/trqx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55 < hiro> i could just register some suckless.tk domain 01:55 -!- trqx [~trqx@gateway/tor-sasl/trqx] has joined #cat-v 01:55 < hiro> run ssl server with forged certs 01:55 < hiro> on chrome it just never works 01:56 < hiro> they have to add our wildcard * cert in order to proceed
03:26 < t61> there's a unix command called news.. should 9front have a fortune news? 03:27 < hiro> t61: that could just read the subjects of new suckless-dev threads. 03:27 < hiro> like 03:27 < hiro> ; news 03:27 < hiro> [dev] [surf] crashing in libcairo 03:28 < hiro> ; news 03:28 < hiro> [dev] [st] Insert key sends nothing 03:28 < hiro> ; news 03:28 < hiro> [dev] [dmenu] doesnt open apps 03:28 < hiro> (this is not made up) 03:28 < hiro> (check https://lists.suckless.org/dev/1712/index.html) 03:29 < hiro> ; news 03:29 < aiju> suckless doing stupid shit doesn't really qualify as news 03:29 < hiro> Re: [dev] [st] Emojis 03:29 < hiro> aiju: that's the JOKE 03:29 < aiju> :) 03:29 < aiju> sorry, my attempted counterjoke came out wrong
18:47 < mveety> eh im not a fan. tiling window managers suck 18:47 < byouki-onnna> when you don tknow much and you see SHADOWS and CLEAR WINDOWS and glass-looking decorations, it looks impressive and neat and it must be good because a lot of work must have gone into it, yknow 18:47 < mveety> plus the suckless guys act like the unix taliban 18:47 < pavot> yeah, suckless is kinda annoying 18:47 < mveety> a lot of work has gone into my plane too. doesn't mean its good 18:47 < byouki-onnna> Well, exactly. 18:48 < byouki-onnna> I think its the same with webpages 18:48 < pavot> I never really tiled with dwm, just used it for it's tags and fullscreen keybinds 18:48 < mveety> my plane isn't clear and doesn't have drop shadows around the windows either 18:48 < mveety> pavot: cwm has all this shit 18:48 * khm commits transparent rio 18:48 < mveety> plus it doesn't have that retarded top bar and is configurable 18:48 < pavot> I know, I didn't learn about cwm until later 18:48 < pavot> ah, but I like the top bar 18:49 < mveety> i don't. you can't do anything useful with it 18:49 < mveety> like i want to be able to configure it 18:49 < pavot> it's nice for switching workspaces with the mouse and displaying useful info via xsetroot 18:49 < mveety> dwm is like a soviet car 18:49 < pavot> yeah, it's not very configurable 18:49 < mveety> theres only one true configuration 18:50 < mveety> i really don't like the suckless guys though
11:13 < mutantturkey> also i enjoy hiro's mail antics. I believe you also troll suckless-dev thoroughly? 11:14 < doppler> not anymore. 11:14 < mutantturkey> i missed something? 11:14 < mutantturkey> a grand fracturing? 11:14 < doppler> I'll let him explain it 11:14 < mutantturkey> something having to do with pubkeys? 11:15 < henesy> Who cares about suckless when we have bitreich now 11:16 < mutantturkey> i dunno, i am not sold on gopher yet 11:16 < doppler> good 11:19 < hiro> 20:14 mutan a grand fracturing? 11:20 < hiro> just check the archives for my last mails 11:20 < hiro> i used to troll suckless-dev a lot while neither garbeam or 20h had time to police or educate all those dumb newbies and hipsters 11:20 -!- flap [~flappy@88-113-154-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #cat-v 11:20 -!- flap [~flappy@88-113-154-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20 < mutantturkey> this is what i said.... newserver, new fingerprint, new certs 11:21 -!- flappy [~flappy@88-113-154-4.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:21 < mutantturkey> so. that was it huh? 11:21 < hiro> the security part from my side is just trolling 11:21 < hiro> just showing how stupid and inconsistent they are 11:21 < hiro> but my main problem is that one of those newbie hipsters took over suckless from garbeam 11:22 < mutantturkey> i don't know garbeam. anslem garbe? 11:22 < hiro> mutantturkey: correct 11:22 < hiro> mutantturkey: one of the things he likes to do is change nicknames, domains and themes 11:22 < hiro> mutantturkey: so it's hard to refer to him 11:22 < mutantturkey> i dont understand why a site like suckless.org would ever need to have https 11:23 < hiro> mutantturkey: my guess is the new führer of suckless is even more of a moron than garbeam
02:44 < aiju> this suckless approach of obsessing over "bloat" and ESPECIALLY trying to quantify it is just turbonerdery 02:45 < markweston> thats why i thought of measuring binary size so you would see the diff between electron and libc 02:45 < jack_rabbit> aiju, yes. 02:46 < markweston> aiju: i always felt like the less bloat is there under me the better I can understand the system underneath 02:47 < jack_rabbit> Bloat is only an issue when it affects me, like when I'm trying to read code, or trying to compile something, or trying to run something.
10:13 < khm> speaking of fuchsia, that os ships sbase now 10:13 < khm> and since the suckless people put my name on it, google is baking my email address into every copy of that software 10:13 < khm> they just can't stop distributing my personal information
02:25 < hiro> i could never understand these stupid suckless people 02:26 < hiro> otoh they probably have tmus as their shell in passwd ;) 02:26 < hiro> tmux
16:07 < Aram> apparently we are white supremacists now. 16:07 < Aram> and reading their IRC channel much worse things 16:08 < Aram> apparently we are also suckless! 16:08 < GreyKnight> I genuinely can't parse the doubtless-witty remark about CoCs 16:08 < Aram> me neither. 16:08 < cinap_lenrek> ??? 16:09 -!- [X-Scale] [~ARM@148.69.37.60] has joined #cat-v 16:11 -!- X-Scale [~ARM@148.69.37.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:11 -!- [X-Scale] is now known as X-Scale 16:14 < khm> Aram: I think that pushcx guy doesn't know that 9front.org/coc changes each payload. 16:15 < cinap_lenrek> ???? 16:15 < cinap_lenrek> what are you talking about? 16:15 < GreyKnight> cinap_lenrek: more activity on the lobste.rs thread 16:17 < Aram> khm: also, I haven't posted on the thread he linked. 16:17 < Aram> khm: some suckless guy posted there though. I think he thinks we are suckless. 16:17 < doppler> oh dear 16:18 -!- pavot [~pavot@unaffiliated/pavot] has joined #cat-v 16:18 < khm> webshits never change 16:22 < khm> I think the solution is clear: just never access that lobsters site ever again
09:04 < iamlayinganegg> Im using suckless terminal and I cant seem to select urls in weechat 09:05 < iamlayinganegg> It works in all other terminal outputs. Anyone help me out? 09:05 -!- MoritaShinobu [~MoritaShi@103.199.161.38] has joined #cat-v 09:06 < hiro> iamlayinganegg: no 09:06 -!- saki [~Thunderbi@91.207.175.150] has quit [Quit: saki] 09:06 < mos6502> i think you are looking for #suckless on oftc 09:07 < hiro> suckless may go lick our ass 09:07 -!- MoritaShinobu [~MoritaShi@103.199.161.38] has quit [Client Quit] 09:07 < hiro> we don't do terminal theming. vt is what we use on 9front. 09:08 < mos6502> hiro: missed oppertunity to say "suck our ass" 09:08 < iamlayinganegg> sorryabout that friends 09:08 -!- MoritaShinobu [~MoritaShi@103.199.161.38] has joined #cat-v 09:08 < glenda> 9front: dmid: add support for midi streams: http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/rev/23cd35091a05 09:08 < hiro> iamlayinganegg: i'm sorry for you having to fuck with shitty terminals 09:09 < hiro> qwx: haha :) 09:09 < iamlayinganegg> okay... 09:09 < hiro> year of the 9front DAW 09:10 < qwx> :) 09:10 -!- rbns [~r@177.72.44.125] has quit [Quit: rbns] 09:11 < khm> iamlayinganegg: why would you ask this here instead of in #suckless 09:12 < iamlayinganegg> khm: it was a mistake 09:12 < iamlayinganegg> sorry about that
11:21 < lich> sss/wc 11:21 -!- lich [qgj53kfgdi@bitreich/lurker/lich] has left #cat-v [] 11:27 -!- cst [none@dslb-188-102-048-071.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:27 < hiro> haha bitreich has a freenode id now 11:28 < hiro> most #cat-v people would be too lazy for such bullshit 11:28 -!- ng1 [~ng@2a02:8084:101:4780:4ecc:6aff:fe04:86d2] has joined #cat-v 11:28 < hiro> going home 11:30 -!- cst [none@dslb-092-078-134-251.092.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #cat-v 11:31 -!- user51 [~fixed613@77.127.104.124] has joined #cat-v 11:32 -!- kasbah [~kasbah@37.120.36.209] has joined #cat-v 11:32 -!- cst [none@dslb-092-078-134-251.092.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33 -!- cst [none@dslb-092-078-134-251.092.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #cat-v 11:34 < pr> what is bitreich? 11:34 < pr> bitcoinshit? 11:35 -!- joe9 [~joe@ip72-200-124-203.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:35 < pr> hmm doesnt look like i 11:35 < pr> it 11:37 < cinap_lenrek> mycroftiv: i wonder if theres not a better alternative to /srv 11:38 -!- absc [~abiscuola@host59-195-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #cat-v 11:38 < aap> pr: 20h's alternative to suckless 11:38 < cinap_lenrek> mycroftiv: its too primitive 11:39 < cinap_lenrek> mycroftiv: imagine if you could pass a wormhole thru a wormhole 11:39 < Ori_B> higher order wormholes? 11:39 < cinap_lenrek> Ori_B: have you seen primer? 11:40 < Ori_B> no. 11:40 < Ori_B> (in this context, what's a wormhole?) 11:40 < cinap_lenrek> Ori_B: /srv is a wormhole 11:40 < pr> aap: like a suckless splinter group? haha :)
11:37 < Glats> k0ga: hi. im sorry but who wrote this https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/ 11:37 < Glats> or who started to write that 11:37 < Glats> was uriel? 11:37 < k0ga> I think was __20h__ 11:38 < k0ga> why? 11:39 < hiro> Glats: it's a git repo 11:39 < Glats> because i agree sf 11:39 < hiro> Glats: check the first commit 11:39 < Glats> af* 11:39 < Glats> thanks hiro 11:39 < Glats> lemme see 11:40 < hiro> suckless is not part of #cat-v
10:01 < eiro> so let me rephrase it: is there an alternative to GNU m4 that "suck less" ? 10:02 < hiro> eiro: we don't do suck less shit 10:02 < hiro> eiro: try #suckless on oftc network 10:02 < hiro> eiro: they would gladly waste their time with bullshit like this 10:03 < aiju> eiro: but what problem are you solving with m4? 10:03 < eiro> hiro: fair enough ... :) i was just curious :) 10:03 < aiju> like perl vs awk, it's a stupid comparison because they're not comparable tools 10:04 < hiro> eiro: masochism != curiosity
21:10 < khm> hahahaah: 21:10 < khm> These releases are the last ones that contain Xft support, which will be removed in the releases to follow. The Xft mess has to be retired in favour for plain old Xfont s. 21:11 < khm> good old suckless, still running in circles 21:11 < qeed> theres single header libraries that does ttf rendering 21:14 < khm> it doesn't matter, since there's nothing dwm or dmenu are doing that require truetype fonts at all 21:16 < qeed> this reminds me why linux desktop sucks, theres no unify way of doing anything 21:17 < khm> that's true of just about everything 21:18 < doppler> wow, are we actually going to be able to upgrade now? 21:19 < khm> doppler: sure, when 6.3 is released in the year 2054 21:20 < SmoothPorcupine> I don't understand suckless. 21:20 < doppler> haha, yeah 21:20 < doppler> they don't even understand themselves 21:21 < SmoothPorcupine> Why don't they just create one software that does one thing and does it well, and the one thing it does it make the software stack suck less? 21:21 < doppler> khm: cool to see the announcement from garbeam himself though 21:21 < SmoothPorcupine> doppler: Shut up I was making that joke. 21:22 < doppler> :) 21:25 < khm> the reason the next dwm release will take so long is because they'll have to change version control platforms at least three times and there just aren't enough 21:25 < khm> sure, they can switch to pijul, then bzr, but then they run out of road 21:25 < doppler> they have to write their own shitty alternative a few times in between those 21:26 < doppler> I see git.suckless.org has gone from cgit → stagit 21:26 < doppler> hrmph 21:26 < doppler> always bikeshedding
19:24 < cybercafe> what is the "suckless" way to write software that smartphone users can easily use? 19:24 < mycroftiv> cybercafe: you should probably ask the suckless channel that
10:31 < tenplaza9> hi. do any of you have experience with 9base by suckless.org? 10:33 < Ori_B> I think I may have accidentally installed it once. 10:34 < tenplaza9> ah right. i picked it of the arch linux community repository. couldn't find any documentation though 10:34 < tenplaza9> can't seem to get the sam editor to work. 10:35 < qeed> the plan9port version? 10:37 -!- riba [~riba@i59F67B35.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:37 < tenplaza9> its this basically: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/9base/ 10:38 < tenplaza9> contains binaries for some of the plan9 programs that work on unix 10:38 < Ori_B> you may have better luck asking in the suckless irc channel; the people here tend to use 9front.
14:56 < textmate> are any of you suckless assburgers? 14:57 < textmate> i need some halp with dwm 14:57 < textmate> , 14:57 < textmate> please 14:57 < bigato> if use it if that counts 14:57 < mischief> textmate: http://fqa.9front.org/goaway.jpg 14:57 < mischief> BurnZeZ: doread:m has the chan in m->c 14:58 < textmate> im trying to apply statuscolor patch 14:58 < mischief> can probably figure out whats on the other end if you dig around 14:58 < textmate> but at compile time i get some issues with MAXCOLOR being undefined 14:58 < bigato> don't change the color --> problem solved 14:59 < bigato> i usually just install the dwm package 15:00 < bigato> or use that clone that is configurable - spectrwm i guess 15:00 < doppler> suckless has their own channel. we have nothing to do with them.
23:58 < priontology> Hmm. 23:58 < priontology> Does anyone here develop st? 23:58 < qeed> go to #suckless
so yeah. suckless and all their nazi-esque garbage, the whole bitreich thing, and all the mind-poison they spew via misunderstanding things that sound cool... throw it into the trash. please do not associate this tripe with cat-v. it's downright insulting
so, this may come to notice:
the links are an archive of a cringey nice-guy reddit post and an article along the lines of “its just intrinsic differences bro”
for reference, harmful.cat-v.org has essentially remained unchanged since uriel committed suicide in 2012. 2012 was a time at which such things weren't gamergater dogwhistles, they were talking points people carried at face value. uriel wasnt a right-winger, he was just a penn&teller brand bleeding-heart libertarian. following is a slideshow of the sort of thing that went along with the above
so, fuck the government, fuck race, fuck intellectual property. yeah. “make unix great again” with all the implications. haha yep. totally hit the nail on the head with that one. uriel might have done any number of things upon being called a crypto-fascist, clock you in the jaw, be very confused, cuss you out... i cant say that agree with you or sheepishly dodge the question would have been one of them. dead men tell no tales but fuck me if im going to let this fellow be accused of such things when he cant answer from the grave.
Have you ever seen an old photo of yourself and been embarrassed at the way you looked? Did we actually dress like that? We did. And we had no idea how silly we looked. It's the nature of fashion to be invisible, in the same way the movement of the earth is invisible to all of us riding on it.
What scares me is that there are moral fashions too. They're just as arbitrary, and just as invisible to most people. But they're much more dangerous. Fashion is mistaken for good design; moral fashion is mistaken for good. Dressing oddly gets you laughed at. Violating moral fashions can get you fired, ostracized, imprisoned, or even killed.
from here. paul graham is a dipshit but you get the point
if you are so inclined, you can comfortably say that uriel, if he stayed alive but stayed the exact same person, might nowadays be a dated, distasteful dudebro only capable of remaining such an ivory-tower libertarian because his privilege allows it, or something like that. i cant speak for how he actually might have turned out. i think he would have killed himself anyway after seeing his darling racehorse golang used to produce monstrosities like docker and kubernetes, but thats besides the point
so i just got done telling you to dissociate suckless from cat-v, weird vaguely fashy hipster channer tiling window manager arch linux minimalism cargo-cult dipshits on one hand, idiosyncratic but altogether harmless (the irony of this word is not lost on me) weirdos obsessed with plan 9 on the other. let me tell you what you definitely should associate cat-v with. 9front.org. they are basically the same thing now. 9front is a commmunity fork of plan 9 prompted by bell labs shitting the bed. let's just take a look-see here...
that was a pain to get through. my deepest gratitude if you actually read this (though hopefully only skimmed the irc logs). lemme just wrap up: