clearing some things up re: cat-v
[context: this was produced for a particular community. if this doesnt mean anything to you, dont worry]
i am not within cat-v, i.e. “one of them” or a particular friend of anyone within it, but it was quite formative for me (on the technical side) from when i was about 14 years old, and i would like to provide the requisite context to view the whole ordeal charitably, and clear up some misconceptions
first of all, suckless are shitheels. fuck em six ways to sunday. they are cargo-cult idiots who do things like unironically create a linux distribution with static linking as a design goal and namesake (haha because doing that on a modern unix sure doesnt lead to complications haha what is openssl haha)
[n.b. plan 9 doesn't have this problem because ssl is done at a level of abstraction living outside the program. plan 9 folks tend to take issue with static linking because it's unnecessary in their context, while the suckless people do it out of purity politics in the context of posix. this is a recurring pattern]
extensive receipts spanning the duration my current irc client has been running on its current box, just doing
less on the log and punching in
/suckless. not exhaustive, but nothing contrary omitted. this should give some idea of the prevailing attitude. i do not speak for any of the individuals featured in these logs.
click here to go to the bottom
01:21 < hiro> nelnire: people started speaking french on suckless!
01:25 < nelnire> Why that ?
01:28 < hiro> nelnire: nationalism 2017-06-18:
23:52 < hiro> [dev] [ANN] samurai: ninja-compatible build tool
23:53 < hiro> suckless is creating more technical debt as usually
23:53 < mveety> thats what they do
23:54 < mveety> brb smoke/popcorn
23:59 < Ori_B> hiro: haha, I think I might be partly to blame for that one by rambling about imrpoving the myrddin build system.
--- Day changed Wed Jul 26 2017
00:01 < hiro> thanks a lot then 2017-07-26:
10:40 < Aram> he's been condescending and insulting to everyone
10:40 < Aram> claims we're only a circlejerk and below intelligence
10:40 < Aram> constantly complaining about us, but refusing to depart peacefully, or to spend effort to actually understand what we do.
10:40 < Aram> he also implied that we are the same people as the suckless folk
10:40 < Aram> he's just a general jerk and asshole
10:41 < Aram> and he can't seem to reply to the right person.
10:41 < Aram> below average internet failure. 2017-08-07;
01:14 < hiro> wow, suckless people going crazy
01:14 < mveety> what weird shit are they doing now?
01:14 < hiro> garbeam replying to k0ga moving scc to 20h's bitreich:
01:15 < hiro> Btw. bare in mind, that putting scc behind gopher won't increase its
01:15 < hiro> visibility or traction by any means imho, rather the opposite. I
01:15 < hiro> understand the motivation by adopting gopher, but nevertheless I
01:15 < hiro> highly encourage you guys (incl. 20h) to also(!) provide your content
01:15 < hiro> via http(s). You are locking yourselve up in some parallel universe,
01:15 < hiro> if most people will end up using gopher web frontends to browse your
01:15 < hiro> content ;)
01:15 -!- Ori_B [~email@example.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
01:15 < mveety> jesus christ they're moving to gopher?
01:15 < hiro> seems that 20h is all about that :D
01:16 < mveety> i used to see him as a friend
01:16 < hiro> mveety: how come?
01:16 < mveety> i guess this is what it feels like when someone you know gets schizophrenia 2017-08-10;
01:21 < k0ga> hiro: you are there for longer time than me, and I am pretty sure that you realized that in the last 2 years or so there was a big change in the suckless way of thinking
01:21 < hiro> k0ga: not really
01:22 < hiro> k0ga: it's been shit pretty much all around
01:22 < mveety> big change?
01:22 < mveety> the schizophrenia comment is apt
01:22 < hiro> k0ga: mainly there was no suckless way of thinking any more at all
01:22 < k0ga> apt?
01:22 < mveety> yeah
01:22 < hiro> k0ga: because garbeam and 20h were not as present on the ml
01:22 < hiro> k0ga: mostly it was unmoderated spam
01:22 < k0ga> yes
01:22 < mveety> suckless is looking more and more like a lunatic asylum
01:23 < k0ga> and more or less the same happened with stateless
01:23 < hiro> k0ga: but before there were garbeam's flighty opinions, which also never helped
01:23 < k0ga> he removed himself the rights in suckless
01:23 < hiro> mveety: #cat-v is that asylum. suckless is just the blackboard downstairs where asylum members can sell their old furniture
01:23 < mveety> hahahahaha
01:23 < k0ga> hahahahahahah same day:
03:42 < oxnas> yeah, i would say i'm just a spectator, but i really just occasionally look at suckless.org and download 9base 2017-08-15:
04:42 < hiro> oh god, fucking suckless
04:42 < hiro> let me summarise what we will carry out during the upcoming hackathon
04:42 < hiro> besides a load of other stuff:
04:42 < hiro> - (mandatory) introduction of HTTPS besides http support
04:42 < hiro> - (mandatory) sorting the maintainership/ownership of suckless repos
04:42 < hiro> (incl. the right to commit/accept/deny patch contributions)
04:42 < hiro> - (mandatory) on release creation making sure that sha256 hashsums are
04:42 < hiro> present for tarball verification on dl.suckless.org
04:42 < hiro> - (optional) repo owners/maintainers should sign their future git tags
04:42 < hiro> for release creation by using their own private PGP key. 2017-08-25:
11:10 < hiro> trolled suckless from the beach today
11:10 < hiro> went swimming three times and stuff
11:11 < joe9> cinap_lenrek: how do the sizes reported by /dev/draw/new get set?
11:11 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: did you read my suckless shit, or did you mean the low hanging fruit turd temple rant? :)
11:12 < cinap_lenrek> hiro: the second :)
11:12 < cinap_lenrek> joe9: what do you mean with sizes?
11:12 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: ah, cause i used the word rant specifically on suckless :D
11:13 < hiro> i ranted there about the stupid inconsistent "security" they fail to provide with letsencrypt now
11:13 < hiro> like garbeam owns the domain, but he lets a third party (that i don't know) handle the letsencrypt bullshit for him 2017-08-31:
11:58 < doppler> 13:10:02 <hiro> trolled suckless from the beach today
11:58 < doppler> hiro: I am immensely jealous. same day:
04:14 < hiro> ok, finally a good opportunity to leave suckless for good
04:15 < hiro> fuck these TLS snakeoil assholes
04:15 < hiro> they understand nothing of trust
04:15 < mveety> i would have pulled the ripcord on that years ago
04:15 < hiro> mveety: i was too lazy to find the unsubscribe url
04:15 < hiro> mveety: also i was 75% sure they'd just kick/ban/mute me
04:16 < hiro> i have to give them props, they didn't do that: but they also didn't prevent other more harmful people from creating shitty code on suckless
04:16 < hiro> and especially as badly as garbeam always managed the webshit, they at least were somewhat stable
04:16 < hiro> but now garbeam isn't even administering shit any more (he must not have any more time for this i guess)
04:17 < hiro> whatever flaws garbeam had he wasn't as stupid as these new people
04:18 < hiro> "Goodbye from firstname.lastname@example.org"
04:18 < hiro> yay
04:18 < mveety> \o/
04:18 < hiro> my days will be more productive now
04:19 < hiro> i could send cat pictures to 9front...
04:19 < hiro> hmm
04:19 < mveety> i stopped reading that shit years ago and it hasn't helped my productivity
04:19 < hiro> mveety: hehe
04:19 < hiro> mveety: adjust your definition of productivity
04:19 < hiro> mine is: not being on suckless equates 100% productivity 2018-09-01:
14:34 < khm> I originally did this for 2wm
14:35 < khm> then I went to look how anselm fixed it in dwm
14:35 < zcram> they seem to be very particular about honour and dignity in the mailing list.
14:35 < khm> and he did it by turning off deprecation warnings
14:35 < khm> (what the fuck, anselm)
14:35 < khm> so that's the RIGHT way to fix the deprecation warning, without introducing a dependency on XKB
14:35 < khm> not that suckless cares about introducing dependencies: let's add freetype to a program that emits a single line of text!
14:36 < zcram> hrm.
14:36 -!- eggstyrone [~email@example.com] has joined #cat-v
14:37 < khm> suckless default CFLAGS are -Wall -pedantic -i-didnt-mean-it -Wmost -Wsome -Webkit
14:37 < zcram> I actually like the pixel fonts that come with Xfree...
14:37 < zcram> rofl....
14:37 < khm> zcram: when I use dwm I use 6.0, but I mostly use 2wm
14:39 < khm> suckless' git webshit doesn't even list all their fucking repositories
14:39 < khm> oh, turns out it DOES list all their repositories and a bunch of shit is just gone forever
14:39 < khm> great
14:40 < zcram> tbh, with suckless' stuff we've reached a point (in the sculptor's view, when there's no more to take away from a finished masterpiece) where most of that stuff doesn't work 'out of the box' for any particular user and must always be customized, which was actually the point (and design goal) as to drive the complete noobs away
14:40 < khm> "doesn't work" is definitely a good descriptions of the two remaining suckless projects
14:40 < zcram> they reworked the repositories some weeks ago
14:40 < zcram> xd
14:41 < Ori_B> zcram: ...not sure if you're serious or not.
14:41 < khm> by "reworked the repositories" you mean "deleted a bunch of shit" right
14:42 < zcram> well, it's just the same as with soviet cars—coming out from the factory they still required a 'making them run-repair' at first, somewhat serious..
14:42 < zcram> yeah
14:42 < khm> it's extremely suckless to delete working code so their webshit looks prettier, but keep the wmii mailing list around forever 2017-09-29:
09:55 < hiro> so, fuck suckless
09:56 < hiro> it's better like this
09:56 < hiro> better they die slowly.
09:56 < doppler> that shouldn't even do anything though right
09:56 < [equa]> the only advantage of using windows is that it doesn't have suckless 2017-11-16:
12:51 < khm> " A vi-like editor based on Plan 9's structural regular expressions
12:51 < khm> which one of you animals created this
12:51 < hiro> haha
12:51 < hiro> let me guess
12:51 < byouki-onna> It's an opinion about the nature of relationships and communication mediums. I don't share it.
12:51 < hiro> Ron?
12:52 < hiro> wait no, perhaps ron uses emacs...\
12:52 < khm> oh it's a suckless guy
12:52 < khm> Loading a file from disk is as simple as mmap(2)-ing it into a buffer,
12:52 < hiro> oh VIS
12:52 < khm> ...
12:52 < hiro> yeah, could have told ya same day:
11:02 < aiju> it's so easy to rationalise this shit when you don't give a fuck about code complexity, too
11:02 < khm> yeah
11:02 < khm> it's like the suckless guys
11:03 < khm> who pride themselves on concise code
11:03 < khm> #include allofwebkit.h
11:03 < khm> run()
11:03 < khm> LOOK HOW CONCISE
11:03 < aiju> hahahah 2017-11-25:
12:37 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: what would ted nelson think about suckless?
12:37 -!- vhaas [~Thunderbi@pool-74-105-227-52.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #cat-v
12:38 < cinap_lenrek> hiro: i don't know.
12:38 < hiro> i already can imagine he'd hate 9front cause he hates files :D
12:38 < cinap_lenrek> hiro: ... what is suckless?
12:38 < hiro> files are not flexible enough, haha :D
12:38 < khm> cinap_lenrek: suckless is a web browser manufacturing cooperative
12:39 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: suckless is multi-monitor window manager theming and kinda apple password prompt engineering
12:39 < hiro> they had the idea first, after microsoft had it first
12:39 < hiro> and then apple fixed it first.
12:40 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: but i'm just babbling
12:40 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: in reality i thought ted nelson kept on describing precisely the opposite of suckless
12:40 < hiro> cinap_lenrek: it's quite striking :D 2017-11-29:
01:44 < hiro> talking doesn't need to be stalking
01:44 < aap> hiro: have you actually met them though?
01:44 < pr> you cant spell stalking without talking
01:44 < aap> him*
01:45 < aiju> man
01:45 < aiju> why does matlab hate dmenu?
01:45 < hiro> 10:34 aiju someone here had their computer replaced by a mac
01:45 < aiju> how does that make any sense
01:45 < hiro> wherever i witnessed this it's been by their request
01:45 < hiro> normally cause they already switched to macbooks at home or so
01:45 < aiju> hiro: yeah i'm just joking :)
01:45 < aiju> hahahahahaha
01:45 < aiju> they got the IT guy
01:45 < hiro> no company will give you a macbook without you asking for it, too expensive :P
01:45 < aiju> maybe i was right
01:46 < aap> at some point *we* will be replaced by macs
01:47 < hiro> aap: i wouldn't know if i met him. but i've overheard nerds talk about computershit in a way i thought they should be jailed
01:47 < hiro> so that might have been him... no idea
01:47 < aap> hehe
01:47 < aiju> weird
01:47 < aiju> i made a 1 billion entry array now
01:47 < aap> i once overheard people on the s-bahn talking about a three dimensional state machine
01:47 < aap> wtf?
01:48 < aiju> i cut off the last entry and it fails with "out of memory"
01:48 < aiju> fucking matlab
01:48 < hiro> i think it's better i don't try to find him or i might run over and make him pay for his sins i have to suffer from at my work
01:48 < hiro> if it's easier to punch him in the face than to reboot the computer to make systemd work again...
01:48 < aap> that guy sure gets a lot of hate
01:48 < aiju> not enough.
01:48 < hiro> and i can already imagine if he dies some day an other asshole will make a systemd2
01:48 < hiro> and it will cargocult all the bad ideas
01:49 < hiro> and make sure they are implemented even worse
01:49 < aap> the amount of people who think he should be killed should worry him
01:50 -!- geospeck [~geospeck@2001:4640:662c:0:6864:f3eb:d03f:bab3] has joined #cat-v
01:52 -!- cinap_lenwerk [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #cat-v
01:52 < aiju> now it's back to italian matlab support
01:52 < deuteron> stalking sounds like a suckless project intended as a less harmful alternative to talking.
01:52 < aiju> hahahahahahahahhahaa
01:52 < cinap_lenwerk> hahaha
01:53 < hiro> deuteron: :)
01:53 < hiro> we have to popularize that idea
01:53 < hiro> perhaps on hackernews
01:53 < deuteron> Everybody; to the mailing list!
01:53 < hiro> let's make a mock-off suckless
01:54 < hiro> it's better when they find out about it on hackernews
01:54 < hiro> they'll be more upset
01:54 < hiro> cause they know they shouldn't be finding out about their suckless news on hackernews
01:54 < hiro> it has to have a github!
01:54 < hiro> and coverage tests
01:55 -!- trqx [~trqx@gateway/tor-sasl/trqx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:55 < hiro> i could just register some suckless.tk domain
01:55 -!- trqx [~trqx@gateway/tor-sasl/trqx] has joined #cat-v
01:55 < hiro> run ssl server with forged certs
01:55 < hiro> on chrome it just never works
01:56 < hiro> they have to add our wildcard * cert in order to proceed 2017-12-04:
03:26 < t61> there's a unix command called news.. should 9front have a fortune news?
03:27 < hiro> t61: that could just read the subjects of new suckless-dev threads.
03:27 < hiro> like
03:27 < hiro> ; news
03:27 < hiro> [dev] [surf] crashing in libcairo
03:28 < hiro> ; news
03:28 < hiro> [dev] [st] Insert key sends nothing
03:28 < hiro> ; news
03:28 < hiro> [dev] [dmenu] doesnt open apps
03:28 < hiro> (this is not made up)
03:28 < hiro> (check https://lists.suckless.org/dev/1712/index.html)
03:29 < hiro> ; news
03:29 < aiju> suckless doing stupid shit doesn't really qualify as news
03:29 < hiro> Re: [dev] [st] Emojis
03:29 < hiro> aiju: that's the JOKE
03:29 < aiju> :)
03:29 < aiju> sorry, my attempted counterjoke came out wrong 2018-12-22:
18:47 < mveety> eh im not a fan. tiling window managers suck
18:47 < byouki-onnna> when you don tknow much and you see SHADOWS and CLEAR WINDOWS and glass-looking decorations, it looks impressive and neat and it must be good because a lot of
work must have gone into it, yknow
18:47 < mveety> plus the suckless guys act like the unix taliban
18:47 < pavot> yeah, suckless is kinda annoying
18:47 < mveety> a lot of work has gone into my plane too. doesn't mean its good
18:47 < byouki-onnna> Well, exactly.
18:48 < byouki-onnna> I think its the same with webpages
18:48 < pavot> I never really tiled with dwm, just used it for it's tags and fullscreen keybinds
18:48 < mveety> my plane isn't clear and doesn't have drop shadows around the windows either
18:48 < mveety> pavot: cwm has all this shit
18:48 * khm commits transparent rio
18:48 < mveety> plus it doesn't have that retarded top bar and is configurable
18:48 < pavot> I know, I didn't learn about cwm until later
18:48 < pavot> ah, but I like the top bar
18:49 < mveety> i don't. you can't do anything useful with it
18:49 < mveety> like i want to be able to configure it
18:49 < pavot> it's nice for switching workspaces with the mouse and displaying useful info via xsetroot
18:49 < mveety> dwm is like a soviet car
18:49 < pavot> yeah, it's not very configurable
18:49 < mveety> theres only one true configuration
18:50 < mveety> i really don't like the suckless guys though 2018-01-26:
11:13 < mutantturkey> also i enjoy hiro's mail antics. I believe you also troll suckless-dev thoroughly?
11:14 < doppler> not anymore.
11:14 < mutantturkey> i missed something?
11:14 < mutantturkey> a grand fracturing?
11:14 < doppler> I'll let him explain it
11:14 < mutantturkey> something having to do with pubkeys?
11:15 < henesy> Who cares about suckless when we have bitreich now
11:16 < mutantturkey> i dunno, i am not sold on gopher yet
11:16 < doppler> good
11:19 < hiro> 20:14 mutan a grand fracturing?
11:20 < hiro> just check the archives for my last mails
11:20 < hiro> i used to troll suckless-dev a lot while neither garbeam or 20h had time to police or educate all those dumb newbies and hipsters
11:20 -!- flap [~email@example.com] has joined #cat-v
11:20 -!- flap [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:20 < mutantturkey> this is what i said.... newserver, new fingerprint, new certs
11:21 -!- flappy [~email@example.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
11:21 < mutantturkey> so. that was it huh?
11:21 < hiro> the security part from my side is just trolling
11:21 < hiro> just showing how stupid and inconsistent they are
11:21 < hiro> but my main problem is that one of those newbie hipsters took over suckless from garbeam
11:22 < mutantturkey> i don't know garbeam. anslem garbe?
11:22 < hiro> mutantturkey: correct
11:22 < hiro> mutantturkey: one of the things he likes to do is change nicknames, domains and themes
11:22 < hiro> mutantturkey: so it's hard to refer to him
11:22 < mutantturkey> i dont understand why a site like suckless.org would ever need to have https
11:23 < hiro> mutantturkey: my guess is the new führer of suckless is even more of a moron than garbeam 2018-02-13:
02:44 < aiju> this suckless approach of obsessing over "bloat" and ESPECIALLY trying to quantify it is just turbonerdery
02:45 < markweston> thats why i thought of measuring binary size so you would see the diff between electron and libc
02:45 < jack_rabbit> aiju, yes.
02:46 < markweston> aiju: i always felt like the less bloat is there under me the better I can understand the system underneath
02:47 < jack_rabbit> Bloat is only an issue when it affects me, like when I'm trying to read code, or trying to compile something, or trying to run something. 2018-03-08:
10:13 < khm> speaking of fuchsia, that os ships sbase now
10:13 < khm> and since the suckless people put my name on it, google is baking my email address into every copy of that software
10:13 < khm> they just can't stop distributing my personal information 2018-03-30:
02:25 < hiro> i could never understand these stupid suckless people
02:26 < hiro> otoh they probably have tmus as their shell in passwd ;)
02:26 < hiro> tmux 2018-06-01:
16:07 < Aram> apparently we are white supremacists now.
16:07 < Aram> and reading their IRC channel much worse things
16:08 < Aram> apparently we are also suckless!
16:08 < GreyKnight> I genuinely can't parse the doubtless-witty remark about CoCs
16:08 < Aram> me neither.
16:08 < cinap_lenrek> ???
16:09 -!- [X-Scale] [~ARM@126.96.36.199] has joined #cat-v
16:11 -!- X-Scale [~ARM@188.8.131.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:11 -!- [X-Scale] is now known as X-Scale
16:14 < khm> Aram: I think that pushcx guy doesn't know that 9front.org/coc changes each payload.
16:15 < cinap_lenrek> ????
16:15 < cinap_lenrek> what are you talking about?
16:15 < GreyKnight> cinap_lenrek: more activity on the lobste.rs thread
16:17 < Aram> khm: also, I haven't posted on the thread he linked.
16:17 < Aram> khm: some suckless guy posted there though. I think he thinks we are suckless.
16:17 < doppler> oh dear
16:18 -!- pavot [~pavot@unaffiliated/pavot] has joined #cat-v
16:18 < khm> webshits never change
16:22 < khm> I think the solution is clear: just never access that lobsters site ever again 2018-06-27:
09:04 < iamlayinganegg> Im using suckless terminal and I cant seem to select urls in weechat
09:05 < iamlayinganegg> It works in all other terminal outputs. Anyone help me out?
09:05 -!- MoritaShinobu [~MoritaShi@184.108.40.206] has joined #cat-v
09:06 < hiro> iamlayinganegg: no
09:06 -!- saki [~Thunderbi@220.127.116.11] has quit [Quit: saki]
09:06 < mos6502> i think you are looking for #suckless on oftc
09:07 < hiro> suckless may go lick our ass
09:07 -!- MoritaShinobu [~MoritaShi@18.104.22.168] has quit [Client Quit]
09:07 < hiro> we don't do terminal theming. vt is what we use on 9front.
09:08 < mos6502> hiro: missed oppertunity to say "suck our ass"
09:08 < iamlayinganegg> sorryabout that friends
09:08 -!- MoritaShinobu [~MoritaShi@22.214.171.124] has joined #cat-v
09:08 < glenda> 9front: dmid: add support for midi streams: http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/rev/23cd35091a05
09:08 < hiro> iamlayinganegg: i'm sorry for you having to fuck with shitty terminals
09:09 < hiro> qwx: haha :)
09:09 < iamlayinganegg> okay...
09:09 < hiro> year of the 9front DAW
09:10 < qwx> :)
09:10 -!- rbns [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has quit [Quit: rbns]
09:11 < khm> iamlayinganegg: why would you ask this here instead of in #suckless
09:12 < iamlayinganegg> khm: it was a mistake
09:12 < iamlayinganegg> sorry about that 2018-08-31:
11:21 < lich> sss/wc
11:21 -!- lich [qgj53kfgdi@bitreich/lurker/lich] has left #cat-v 
11:27 -!- cst [email@example.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
11:27 < hiro> haha bitreich has a freenode id now
11:28 < hiro> most #cat-v people would be too lazy for such bullshit
11:28 -!- ng1 [~ng@2a02:8084:101:4780:4ecc:6aff:fe04:86d2] has joined #cat-v
11:28 < hiro> going home
11:30 -!- cst [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #cat-v
11:31 -!- user51 [~email@example.com] has joined #cat-v
11:32 -!- kasbah [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #cat-v
11:32 -!- cst [email@example.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:33 -!- cst [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #cat-v
11:34 < pr> what is bitreich?
11:34 < pr> bitcoinshit?
11:35 -!- joe9 [~email@example.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
11:35 < pr> hmm doesnt look like i
11:35 < pr> it
11:37 < cinap_lenrek> mycroftiv: i wonder if theres not a better alternative to /srv
11:38 -!- absc [~firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #cat-v
11:38 < aap> pr: 20h's alternative to suckless
11:38 < cinap_lenrek> mycroftiv: its too primitive
11:39 < cinap_lenrek> mycroftiv: imagine if you could pass a wormhole thru a wormhole
11:39 < Ori_B> higher order wormholes?
11:39 < cinap_lenrek> Ori_B: have you seen primer?
11:40 < Ori_B> no.
11:40 < Ori_B> (in this context, what's a wormhole?)
11:40 < cinap_lenrek> Ori_B: /srv is a wormhole
11:40 < pr> aap: like a suckless splinter group? haha :) 2019-01-14:
11:37 < Glats> k0ga: hi. im sorry but who wrote this https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/
11:37 < Glats> or who started to write that
11:37 < Glats> was uriel?
11:37 < k0ga> I think was __20h__
11:38 < k0ga> why?
11:39 < hiro> Glats: it's a git repo
11:39 < Glats> because i agree sf
11:39 < hiro> Glats: check the first commit
11:39 < Glats> af*
11:39 < Glats> thanks hiro
11:39 < Glats> lemme see
11:40 < hiro> suckless is not part of #cat-v 2019-01-22:
10:01 < eiro> so let me rephrase it: is there an alternative to GNU m4 that "suck less" ?
10:02 < hiro> eiro: we don't do suck less shit
10:02 < hiro> eiro: try #suckless on oftc network
10:02 < hiro> eiro: they would gladly waste their time with bullshit like this
10:03 < aiju> eiro: but what problem are you solving with m4?
10:03 < eiro> hiro: fair enough ... :) i was just curious :)
10:03 < aiju> like perl vs awk, it's a stupid comparison because they're not comparable tools
10:04 < hiro> eiro: masochism != curiosity 2019-01-28
21:10 < khm> hahahaah:
21:10 < khm> These releases are the last ones that contain Xft support, which will be removed in the releases to follow. The Xft mess has to be retired in favour for plain old Xfont
21:11 < khm> good old suckless, still running in circles
21:11 < qeed> theres single header libraries that does ttf rendering
21:14 < khm> it doesn't matter, since there's nothing dwm or dmenu are doing that require truetype fonts at all
21:16 < qeed> this reminds me why linux desktop sucks, theres no unify way of doing anything
21:17 < khm> that's true of just about everything
21:18 < doppler> wow, are we actually going to be able to upgrade now?
21:19 < khm> doppler: sure, when 6.3 is released in the year 2054
21:20 < SmoothPorcupine> I don't understand suckless.
21:20 < doppler> haha, yeah
21:20 < doppler> they don't even understand themselves
21:21 < SmoothPorcupine> Why don't they just create one software that does one thing and does it well, and the one thing it does it make the software stack suck less?
21:21 < doppler> khm: cool to see the announcement from garbeam himself though
21:21 < SmoothPorcupine> doppler: Shut up I was making that joke.
21:22 < doppler> :)
21:25 < khm> the reason the next dwm release will take so long is because they'll have to change version control platforms at least three times and there just aren't enough
21:25 < khm> sure, they can switch to pijul, then bzr, but then they run out of road
21:25 < doppler> they have to write their own shitty alternative a few times in between those
21:26 < doppler> I see git.suckless.org has gone from cgit → stagit
21:26 < doppler> hrmph
21:26 < doppler> always bikeshedding 2019-02-03:
19:24 < cybercafe> what is the "suckless" way to write software that smartphone users can easily use?
19:24 < mycroftiv> cybercafe: you should probably ask the suckless channel that 2019-03-20:
10:31 < tenplaza9> hi. do any of you have experience with 9base by suckless.org?
10:33 < Ori_B> I think I may have accidentally installed it once.
10:34 < tenplaza9> ah right. i picked it of the arch linux community repository. couldn't find any documentation though
10:34 < tenplaza9> can't seem to get the sam editor to work.
10:35 < qeed> the plan9port version?
10:37 -!- riba [~riba@i59F67B35.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
10:37 < tenplaza9> its this basically: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/9base/
10:38 < tenplaza9> contains binaries for some of the plan9 programs that work on unix
10:38 < Ori_B> you may have better luck asking in the suckless irc channel; the people here tend to use 9front. 2019-04-21:
14:56 < textmate> are any of you suckless assburgers?
14:57 < textmate> i need some halp with dwm
14:57 < textmate> ,
14:57 < textmate> please
14:57 < bigato> if use it if that counts
14:57 < mischief> textmate: http://fqa.9front.org/goaway.jpg
14:57 < mischief> BurnZeZ: doread:m has the chan in m->c
14:58 < textmate> im trying to apply statuscolor patch
14:58 < mischief> can probably figure out whats on the other end if you dig around
14:58 < textmate> but at compile time i get some issues with MAXCOLOR being undefined
14:58 < bigato> don't change the color --> problem solved
14:59 < bigato> i usually just install the dwm package
15:00 < bigato> or use that clone that is configurable - spectrwm i guess
15:00 < doppler> suckless has their own channel. we have nothing to do with them. 2019-05-07:
23:58 < priontology> Hmm.
23:58 < priontology> Does anyone here develop st?
23:58 < qeed> go to #suckless 2019-06-08:
back to top
so yeah. suckless and all their nazi-esque garbage, the whole bitreich thing, and all the mind-poison they spew via misunderstanding things that sound cool... throw it into the trash. please do not associate this tripe with cat-v. it's downright insulting
so, this may come to notice:
the links are an archive of a cringey nice-guy reddit post and an article along the lines of “its just intrinsic differences bro”
for reference, harmful.cat-v.org has essentially remained unchanged since uriel
committed suicide in 2012. 2012 was a time at which such things weren't gamergater dogwhistles, they were talking points people carried at face value. uriel wasnt a right-winger, he was just a penn&teller brand bleeding-heart libertarian. following is a slideshow of the sort of thing that went along with the above
so, fuck the government, fuck race, fuck intellectual property. yeah. “make unix great again” with all the implications. haha yep. totally hit the nail on the head with that one. uriel might have done any number of things upon being called a crypto-fascist, clock you in the jaw, be very confused, cuss you out... i cant say that agree with you or sheepishly dodge the question would have been one of them. dead men tell no tales but fuck me if im going to let this fellow be accused of such things when he cant answer from the grave.
Have you ever seen an old photo of yourself and been embarrassed at the way you looked?
Did we actually dress like that? We did. And we had no idea how silly we looked. It's the nature of fashion to be invisible, in the same way the movement of the earth is invisible to all of us riding on it.
What scares me is that there are moral fashions too. They're just as arbitrary, and just as invisible to most people. But they're much more dangerous. Fashion is mistaken for good design; moral fashion is mistaken for good. Dressing oddly gets you laughed at. Violating moral fashions can get you fired, ostracized, imprisoned, or even killed.
from here. paul graham is a dipshit but you get the point
if you are so inclined, you can comfortably say that uriel, if he stayed alive but stayed the exact same person, might nowadays be a dated, distasteful dudebro only capable of remaining such an ivory-tower libertarian because his privilege allows it, or something like that. i cant speak for how he actually might have turned out. i think he would have killed himself anyway after seeing his darling racehorse golang used to produce monstrosities like docker and kubernetes, but thats besides the point
more fucking politics? seriously?
so i just got done telling you to dissociate suckless from cat-v, weird vaguely fashy hipster channer tiling window manager arch linux minimalism cargo-cult dipshits on one hand, idiosyncratic but altogether harmless (the irony of this word is not lost on me) weirdos obsessed with plan 9 on the other. let me tell you what you definitely
should associate cat-v with. 9front.org. they are basically the same thing now. 9front is a commmunity fork of plan 9 prompted by bell labs shitting the bed. let's just take a look-see here...
hmm, whats this? [the green arrow points to where my cursor is. fucking screenshot cursor occlusion]
well shit, thats pretty cut and dry phew
that was a pain to get through. my deepest gratitude if you actually read this (though hopefully only skimmed the irc logs). lemme just wrap up:
suckless are the fascistic purity politics cargo cultists
cat-v/9front are cool guys, just obsessed with plan 9, call them weird for that if you want
the pages are dated
if you take harmful.cat-v.org/software seriously and literally from the perspective of replacing tools in a standard unix, you're gonna have a bad time (hint: suckless are the living embodiment of that strawman)
judging people for affection for plan 9 is kinda fucked. its pretty much the missing link in complexity, its something you can do interesting things with but also understand the source code without necessarily coming from a systems background. consider it a toy if you like, but i was a valuable
educational toy for some of us